thezman

Zwave logo, branding and compatability

43 posts in this topic

What is the requirment for a product to carry the Z-wave logo?

I thought they had to be certified.

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The products do need to be certified to display the Z-Wave Speaks logo. However, even though this is a requirement the only thing stoping them from doing it is their own good will. It would have to be a pretty serious case for the alliance or Zen-Sys to take the matter to court. Cases like that cost a lot of money.

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The products do need to be certified to display the Z-Wave Speaks logo. However, even though this is a requirement the only thing stoping them from doing it is their own good will. It would have to be a pretty serious case for the alliance or Zen-Sys to take the matter to court. Cases like that cost a lot of money.

I guess that would be a issue with zensys then.

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It's probably up to us as consumers to write Zen-Sys and the Alliance e-mails if we find a product displaying a logo while not being compatible. They need to know that this is a serious issue for us. We rely on that logo to know if we should spend a lot of money on a product.

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It's probably up to us as consumers to write Zen-Sys and the Alliance e-mails if we find a product displaying a logo while not being compatible. They need to know that this is a serious issue for us. We rely on that logo to know if we should spend a lot of money on a product.

Thank you, My sentiments exactly.

But where does compatability enter as the decisive argument. So I suppose that anyone can use the logo provided they build a good product. Us consumers rely on these things to help us make our purchasing decisions.

It's like somone else selling Nike knock offs and then Nike allowed it to occur with it's blessing. Then later finding out these so called knock off's were inferior and did not last long or possibly caused personal injury. Then when Nike is confronted they won't stand behind the product. We rely on corporations to police themselves and not water down the brand.

While surfing the net I stumbled on this important Zensys rules for using the Zwave Logo.

Not the complete form:

"Trademark and Logo Usage Guidelines

These terms and conditions outline the proper usage of the Z-Wave Logo. The logo may be used only on Z-Wave certified products with valid certification numbers issued by Zensys, and You must agree to adhere to the terms and conditions of the Trademark and Logo usage program.

The Z-Wave Logo Program

The purpose of the Z-Wave Logo Program is to positively promote the Z-Wave brand mark and ensure interoperability of the Z-Wave platform across products, manufacturers, developers and applications

The Z-Wave logo may be used only in conjunction with product packaging, display advertising and/or promotion of Z-Wave certified-product(s) that contain the corresponding Z-Wave protocol and platform.

Qualifying Products

Only certified Z-Wave products with a valid certification number and Certificate of Compliance issued by Zensys are eligible to participate in the Logo Program.

Advertising

All advertisements that incorporate any of the Zensys registered or trademarked logos: must comply with the trademark and logo usage guidelines contained herein, """"""""""

So I guess my next question does Zensys stand behind their own rules or not?

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You guys should start a thread about Z-Wave products that are not "up to par" or compatible at all. If we can get a decent accurate list going then I will sticky it. We can help by informing other consumers so that they don't make the same mistake some of us have. Once we have a list of examples we will have grounds for an argument with the Alliance as to why they need to enforce this type of stuff.

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You guys should start a thread about Z-Wave products that are not "up to par" or compatible at all. If we can get a decent accurate list going then I will sticky it. We can help by informing other consumers so that they don't make the same mistake some of us have. Once we have a list of examples we will have grounds for an argument with the Alliance as to why they need to enforce this type of stuff.

Might be a good, Idea I'd like to hear from others on this forum.

I don't know about you or anyone else but the products that do have proper certification seem to work pretty good and are reliable. They carry long term warranty 2,4,5, years. I've never heard a complaint made of the big players like leviton , cooper, intermatic that was not resolved. I heard some had issues early on ,but they stood behind the product.

I only know of Hawking as they are way too slow to respond to issues. Now they discontinue a product only after a short while. And really what they did is repackage the box and load a different firmware. What they don't realize is somone will schwoop in and capture their target market. The lower price entry level stand alone Z-wave controller.

By the way does the Z-wave logo appear anyplace on the package or the Gateway sample of the HRPro they sent you?

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So am I all out here by myself. Everyone is pleasantly happy with all the Zwave products?

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I'll be the first to admit that I am not happy with all the products. I find that many of the products are misleading. The Harmony 890 Pro is a good example. Sure it can control Z-Wave devices but it lacks in the ability of being a secondary controller. Hawking HomeRemote is another example. It also can control Z-Wave devices but it has not been stable enough or easy enough to setup for me to use it full time. It has all the potential anyone would ever want in a system like that but its poorly implemented.

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

I could list a million GOOD things about Z-Wave. #1 someone finally made a decent Thermostat (Intermatic/Wayne-Dalton). Someone finally supplied an RS232 interface that allows any programmer to add Z-Wave support to their software (Leviton). Two-Way communication is available now (Levition). Controllers are being designed better.

You should keep in mind that Z-Wave is still a very young protocol. I think the first products were only shipped about 5 years ago. If you were around back in those days you would have been complaining a lot more. The alliance has made a ton of improvements to the underlying platform and it is just taking a little while for these changes to work their way into production. If we can weed out the few products that are not up to par I think you would be very happy with Z-Wave. The lighting products seem to be very solid now days. I think thermostats will be well support very soon. The pieces are going to start to come together.

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I'll be the first to admit that I am not happy with all the products. I find that many of the products are misleading. The Harmony 890 Pro is a good example. Sure it can control Z-Wave devices but it lacks in the ability of being a secondary controller. Hawking HomeRemote is another example. It also can control Z-Wave devices but it has not been stable enough or easy enough to setup for me to use it full time. It has all the potential anyone would ever want in a system like that but its poorly implemented.

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

I could list a million GOOD things about Z-Wave. #1 someone finally made a decent Thermostat (Intermatic/Wayne-Dalton). Someone finally supplied an RS232 interface that allows any programmer to add Z-Wave support to their software (Leviton). Two-Way communication is available now (Levition). Controllers are being designed better.

You should keep in mind that Z-Wave is still a very young protocol. I think the first products were only shipped about 5 years ago. If you were around back in those days you would have been complaining a lot more. The alliance has made a ton of improvements to the underlying platform and it is just taking a little while for these changes to work their way into production. If we can weed out the few products that are not up to par I think you would be very happy with Z-Wave. The lighting products seem to be very solid now days. I think thermostats will be well support very soon. The pieces are going to start to come together.

Although young that does not give an excuse for using the public,contractors or integrators as test beds. There is absolutely no exuse for not having real world testing prior to release. Most if not all of the issues we have had could or should have been known prior to release.

The more people intergrate these system into Homes for Energy savings measures The more the issue of reliability is mandatory. If these products are instlled by a contractor then He could become liable for the poor working product.

all of you need to consider this.

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Although young that does not give an excuse for using the public,contractors or integrators as test beds. There is absolutely no exuse for not having real world testing prior to release. Most if not all of the issues we have had could or should have been known prior to release.

The more people intergrate these system into Homes for Energy savings measures The more the issue of reliability is mandatory. If these products are instlled by a contractor then He could become liable for the poor working product.

all of you need to consider this.

When I started working with Z-Wave products I thought that I would be able to install, setup, perform a little validation, and all these various products would work together. After all one of the objectives of Z-Wave standard is interoperability. Well, that wasn't necessarily true even for products carrying the Z-Wave logo. Hawking technologies, HRGZ1 and HRPG1 is the poster child of a product that absolutely lacks interoperability with all Z-Wave products and contains plenty of bugs. Although there are continued promises that bug fixes are arriving soon, no realistic fixes have been published that resolve the issues. I question whether

(1) products carrying the logo are actually tested?

(2) the Z-Wave logo provides any assurances or sets an expectation about inter-operability?

(3) each time a product is not interoperable is it a broken promise of the Z-Wave standard?

(4) there any options when a product appears to be inter-operable?

(5) the z-wave alliance polices their members to insure they are following the rules.

I guess I could go on and on but I will wait to hear from Z-Wave

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When I started working with Z-Wave products I thought that I would be able to install, setup, perform a little validation, and all these various products would work together. After all one of the objectives of Z-Wave standard is interoperability. Well, that wasn't necessarily true even for products carrying the Z-Wave logo. Hawking technologies, HRGZ1 and HRPG1 is the poster child of a product that absolutely lacks interoperability with all Z-Wave products and contains plenty of bugs. Although there are continued promises that bug fixes are arriving soon, no realistic fixes have been published that resolve the issues. I question whether

(1) products carrying the logo are actually tested?

(2) the Z-Wave logo provides any assurances or sets an expectation about inter-operability?

(3) each time a product is not interoperable is it a broken promise of the Z-Wave standard?

(4) there any options when a product appears to be inter-operable?

(5) the z-wave alliance polices their members to insure they are following the rules.

I guess I could go on and on but I will wait to hear from Z-Wave

There are approved testing labs for Z-wave. I think what you are refferring to is the fact that the Hawking has not certified either of their gateway devices. They basically use the Logo without authorization or possibly illegal in many States.

The State of Nevada has such laws:

2. Knowingly makes a false representation as to the source, sponsorship, approval or certification of goods or services for sale or lease.

5. Knowingly makes a false representation as to the characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, alterations or quantities of goods or services for sale or lease or a false representation as to the sponsorship, approval, status, affiliation or connection of a person therewith

I'm sure most states have such laws on the books.

Consumers have the right to challenge this usually through the local Dept of consumer affairs.

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What's the point of branding and having interoperability if the products made only work with each other if certain things apply.

We is zensys in all this mess. Now there is a lock which appears not to have any controllers that can work it.

Zensys are you going to have a version list of the different zwave certs.

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Can anyone explain what it is meant to be Z-wave and bear the Z-wave emblem?

It's supposed to mean compatability, interoperable ect.

does any of the experts have a notion ...................................

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To those at Zwave world.com

I am amazed that you folks at Zwave world contiue to support and review z-wave products that are basically bearing the zwave insignia without letting us know whats what.

Case in point the Hawking gateway products. Neither the HRGZ1 is or was certified. The HRPG1 was released for sale late june of this year and yet it still is not certified according to Zensys as of today.

when is this going to stop?

When are we going to know what the Zwave brand means. For example when are we going to know what each product will support. What a product is supposed to do and certified to do. What is this whole certification if nobody knows except for the secret club of alliance members?

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thezman,

I understand your frustration. I just sent an e-mail to our staff to talk this over and I hope to post an official responce to your post soon.

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thezman,

I understand your frustration. I just sent an e-mail to our staff to talk this over and I hope to post an official response to your post soon.

Yeah that's great.

I won't get too excited

In my opinion based on the past several years they just don't care.

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Yeah that's great.

I won't get too excited

In my opinion based on the past several years they just don't care.

I've posed this issue to Zensys management and hope for a clarification today.

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I've posed this issue to Zensys management and hope for a clarification today.

Im not getting my hopes up.

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It's supposed to mean compatability, interoperable ect.

does any of the experts have a notion ...................................

yea just what I thought...

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I suppose I am just having a conversation with myself here.

I guess knowone cares if a divice or controller don't work together.

I guess all you folks are just use to getting screwed by something that does not work as it is intended.

I guess all you folks are just knumb to the effects of having to search the internet for a fix.

I guess all you folks are knumb to spending all your spare time getting something to work.

I guess all you folks are knumb to finding that after you spent all that time trying to fix something that it would never work anyway because the product manufacturer new of the bug but failed to notify the public.

I guess all you folks are knumb to the fact that a company will say they will fix a bug but never do.

When will the insanity cease?

Stop the insanity"

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I merged your two ranting topics because they were basically the same topics. Feel free to continue ranting but keep it clean as you have been.

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