ITGOit

Problem wall switches with Vera and Merten device

6 posts in this topic

Hi, i'd like to ask for your kind assistance to help with another issue I'm having.

Here in Italy (and in a few other European countries) we have wall recessed boxes which are slightly different from the rest of the world, so we can't use many of the existing Z-Wave load control devices on the market, designed to fit into square boxes (we have rectangular ones).

The only wall-mountable solution available to us is a device built by Merten, the product code of which is 506.004. It is a little transmitter allowing remote control of other Merten load control devices (such as 507.502, and others).This device is wired to push buttons commonly found in Italy.

If Vera could recognize it properly our problems would be over, but unfortunately Vera recognizes it as a motion sensor.

We've been investigating this issue, looking for help in forum (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=276.msg26757), and there we noticed other users have our same issue, but don't seem to bother much; on the contrary, for us in Italy this matter is crucial, since it's the only way we have to control house lights from wall switches!

We are an IT company (www.itgo.it) that has been into domotics for 2 years (we've even developed our custom Zigbee hardware prototypes and control software before abandoning these in favor of Z-Wave).

Thanks in advance for any suggestion you could give us.

Dock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There will soon be another possibility.

Have you seen QEES Wave series? http://www.qees.eu/waveseries-29/

Should be available end of Q1 2011.

Regards

Morten

P.s. My experience with Merten Connect Radio Transmitter flush-mounted 4-gang and Vera was not good. http://zwaves.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&...mp;p=2145#p2145 (Danish. Google translate.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There will soon be another possibility.

Have you seen QEES Wave series? http://www.qees.eu/waveseries-29/

Should be available end of Q1 2011.

Regards

Morten

P.s. My experience with Merten Connect Radio Transmitter flush-mounted 4-gang and Vera was not good. http://zwaves.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&...mp;p=2145#p2145 (Danish. Google translate.)

Hi Morten,

From the Zwave alliance site, it reads:

"Having this standard means every product that bears the Z-Wave mark will work with all other Z-Wave products, with no special programming, regardless of who originally manufacturers the item. As a result, total home control has been made simple, accessible and affordable to consumers everywhere. Not three years from now. Not next year -- today."

So I wonder how it is possible that Merten has been awarded the compatibility Zwave if this is not completely true, or if this is an issue only with the Micasaverde Vera!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 3 years with Z-Wave tell me, simple commands always work. The more complex ones often does not.

Button one can always turn a switch on/off and things like that, but masters/controllers have problems.

I have remotes from Duwi and QEES that don't work with my Innovus House Control (master). But I can still use them. I just add them to the network of the House Control, and then associate them with dimmers/switches as if they were alone on the net.

Vera has more problems than most. Things that work suddenly stops working in the next firmware and so on. And Merten is the most "closed" Z-Wave producer, I have met. Hence it is not the best combination.

On zwaves.dk we have made this http://zwaves.dk/wiki/index.php?title=Produkter , that displays what we know. Vera is a problem though, as devices often work in one firmware and not in the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience I understand that the claims made by the Zwave alliance unfortunately do not always correspond to reality, and a number of certified products don't meet the agreed interoperability standards.

This issue is crucial for the end customers, who buy expensive devices (marked Zwave) that cannot be controlled except by proprietary products.

I hope that the ones in charge of the alliance give all the due explanations!

My last communication to the Zwave alliance (Mrs. Miller) was on Nov 04 2011, where I solicited an answer regarding my request for clarification (already sent on December 22, 2010), but I never got a response; this does not seem correct for a large organization such as theirs.

This is my last email went unanswered:

-----------

Dear Mrs. Miller,

I hope you had the time to check out about the issue I reported in my last e-mail.

I kept on testing various Z-Wave products, and while some of them work flawlessly, I've found another (costly) Merten product with the Z-Wave logo (!) on it, namely the Argus 220 - 509 519, to have the same interoperability issues I already reported.

The technical support at MiCasaVerde, who are the makers of the Vera router I'm testing these products with, answered me with the following statement:

---

First, the Merten 509 519 uses proprietary classes, classes to which we don't have access to without reverse engineering them and since it's illegal, we won't do that. We had tons of requests at Merten to provide them so we can make them work with our software, but no positive answer,

sorry.

---

So I'm kindly asking you, as the CEO of the Z-Wave alliance, to state if there exists an issue with Z-Wave branded products that don't have the full interoperability claimed by the alliance ruleset, or if the problem is instead to be found in the software side (MiOS) or hardware

controllers (MiCasaVerde Vera).

I wrote a letter to Zwave Alliance and I hope to provide comprehensive answers that will bring you back here in the forums.

Here is the text :

Dear Zwave Alliance,

I'd like to ask for your kind assistance to help me with a serious issue I'm having.

Here in Italy (and in a few other European countries) we have wall recessed boxes which are slightly different from the rest of the world, so we can't use many of the existing Z-Wave load control devices on the market, designed to fit into square boxes (we have rectangular ones).

The only wall-mountable solution available to us is a device built by Merten, the product code of which is 506.004. It is a little transmitter allowing remote control of other Merten load control devices (such as 507.502, and others). This device is wired to push buttons commonly found in Italy.

To control Zwave devices I chose the MiCasaVerde Vera system, hoping it would recognize the Merten device properly; but unfortunately Vera recognizes it as a motion sensor.

We've been investigating this issue, looking for help in any forum (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=276.msg26757), and there we noticed other users have our same issue, but don't seem to bother much; on the contrary, for us in Italy this matter is crucial, since this device is the only one we can fit into standard wall recessed boxes.

The Zwave alliance site reads:

"Having this standard means every product that bears the Z-Wave mark will work with all other Z-Wave products, with no special programming, regardless of who originally manufacturers the item. As a result, total home control has been made simple, accessible and affordable to consumers everywhere. Not three years from now. Not next year -- today."

After deep testing, MiCasaVerde claims that the Merten device does not fully comply to Z-Wave standard parameters, and therefore the Vera system can not recognize it properly.

Here is a technical analysys from their support :

"The Merten 506004 is a proprietary device, they have proprietary classes embed in their controller. For this, we're not able to control it. We made several requests to Merten to provide those classes to implement them into Vera, but so far, no answer. We could go ahead and reverse engineer their code, but that's illegal and unfair. Until they provide those classes, we can't do much about it, sorry."

So I wonder how is it possible that this Merten device has been awarded Zwave compatibility if this is not completely true!

We hope to find a solution as soon as possible, since our vision is to start installing Zwave systems in Italy where this technology still isn't well-known.

Thanks for your attention .

Best regards

post-2015-1297439500_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now